English Learners and the Science of Reading

Narrator:

Welcome to EDVIEW360.

Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan:

Every language in the world has sounds. Every language has words. Every language has the function of words and the use. And for students who are learning English as this additional language, it's very important for them to not only be able to be strong in their home language, but also do they have the opportunities to be strong in that second or third language, because that is going to support literacy?

Narrator:

You just heard from literacy expert Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan, who is our guest today on EDVIEW360 with her colleague, Dr. Antonio Fierro.

Greg Hullett:

Hello, this is Greg Hullett, and I'm happy to welcome you back to the EDVIEW360 podcast series. We are so excited to have you with us today. I'm conducting today's podcast from my native Dallas, Texas, where Voyager Sopris Learning^® is headquartered. Today, we are excited to welcome two literacy leaders who have impacted the instruction of reading in so many ways, and especially for English learners. For anyone who teaches reading or follows the science of reading as an approach to helping English learners learn to read, you're in for a great experience today as we talk with Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan and Dr. Antonio Fierro. Welcome.

EC-H:

Thanks so much, Greg. Really excited for today's session.

AF:

Hey, Greg. It's good to be here.

GH:

Let me tell you a little bit about our guests before we begin our conversation. After many years in the classroom, and as a literacy expert, Dr. Antonio Fierro is now dedicated to helping schools and districts teach reading to every student regardless of previous experience or native language. Dr. Fierro is a former Texas State Teacher of the Year and was a member of the LETRS^® cohort of literacy consultants led by Dr. Louisa Moats for almost 20 years. Dr. Fierro has contributed to several literacy curricula for English learners, along with Tools for Reading President Dr. Mary Dahlgren. He is the co-author of Kid Lips, a curriculum that teaches the articulatory features of English phonemes to young children with additional support for English learners. His areas of interest include early literacy instruction, improving the learning experience of pre-service teaching candidates, and the research and practice that impacts English learners.

Dr. Fierro currently sits on the board of The Reading League. Also, with us Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan is a bilingual speech language pathologist, certified academic language therapist, and qualified instructor. She is the president of Valley Speech Language and Learning Center in Brownsville, Texas, which was established in 1993. She is also a research associate with the Texas Institute for Measurement Evaluation and Statistics at the University of Houston. Dr. Cárdenas-Hagan's research interests include the development of early reading assessments for Spanish-speaking students and the development of reading interventions for bilingual students. She serves as the chairperson of the National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities and as a past vice chairperson for the International Dyslexia Association^®. Her book, Literacy Foundations for English Learners: A Comprehensive Guide to Evidence-Based Instruction, provides strategies for successful implementation among this diverse population of students. Thank you so much for joining. Let's get started. Welcome, Elsa and Antonio.

AF:

Thank you.

EC-H:

Thank you.

AF:

Hi, Elsa.

EC-H:

Hi, Antonio.

GH:

Thank you so much for being here. So, Elsa, let's start with you. Why is language development so important for literacy?

EC-H:

Well, that's a great question and really, as we know, language is necessary for literacy. So, no matter what language you speak, language supports your literacy. So, language is a foundation of literacy. So, if I speak English or Spanish or Arabic, we know how much that language contributes to literacy. And what we want to know is how when we think about language, Drs. Bloom and Lahey talked to us about, "Oh, every language in the world has sounds. Every language has words. Every language has the function of words and the use." And for students who are learning English as this additional language, it's very important for them to not only be able to be strong in their home language, but also do they have the opportunities to be strong in that second or third language because that is going to support literacy?

GH:

That's great. Thank you so much. And Antonio, in addition to that, we're having a huge overturn with the science of reading. States across the United States are moving from rote and memorization of words over to the science of reading. Do you think that will have a greater impact on literacy or do you think that if you memorize a word, you have kind of a leg up on literacy to be literate?

AF:

When we think about the science of reading, we're thinking about the years of research that have contributed to the field as to how children learn to read. So, all those elements apply to English learners as well. And we'll talk about the adjustments that need to be made. What I've always said is that every word has a story to tell. And so memorizing words for the sake of just memorizing how they're spelled what they look like doesn't do us any good. It's important that we are explicit with the teaching of what makes up this word. What is the phonology of this word? What are the phonemes that go into this word? Right? What's so special about the spelling of this word? And that's I think something that will get that curiosity going for our kids as well. I mean, where does this word come from?

Is this an Anglo-Saxon one? Is it Latin? What can we tell about this word's language of origin? And then of course, especially for our English learners, what does this word mean? And then how do I use it? How do I use it in a sentence? What role does this word play it in a sentence? All right. Where did we see it used? And we go back to the text and see this is where this word is going to be used. And so we read that word in context. One of the biggest criticisms that we have received is that we teach these elements in isolation. And Elsa just mentioned, language is that binding fiber that brings it all together. So, as we're talking about the word and we're learning about how the word is being articulated and what it means, that's the entire experience of the word. So, it's not just memorizing it. What does it bring to the table? What story does it tell? Where do we see it? And then how do we use that? So, it's all complete.

EC-H:

And Tony, I think I'd like to add to that beautiful description. So, I think what you're describing is really being more comprehensive and it's not like what you were saying, memorizing words. But the other thing is that students from everywhere have probably some knowledge even in their home language and so making those connections. So, Tony was just describing all the connections that could be made. Here's the sounds. Here's how the word is used. Here's the meaning. Here's the word parts, but what about what they already know from their language? Really capitalizing upon those cross-linguistic transferring. And the majority of English learners that we have in our country, we're getting close. It's about 77 percent speak Spanish in their home language.

But in Texas, for us, it's 91 percent speaks Spanish as their home language. But it's really capitalizing and making ourselves aware of, I'm going to be really talking about this and I'm going to really bring in a structure. And what Tony was just describing to you really is a structure about how deep we can go and not be surfaced about it, but we can also add what do they already know and what kind of connections can we make from that home language to that second language.

AF:

And ensuring that heritage language, that home language, it is seen as an asset. I mean, this is what kids bring to the table. So, we see that as an asset. And then how does that help? How does that contribute to the acquisition of language or reading development? And then how do we evolve from that again with that common fiber of language development? Nicely said, Elsa.

GH:

That's a great point. I think that's a wonderful tactic to bring inside the classroom because if you think about the English language, it has its origins. English wasn't the original language. It has Latin roots, Greek, Arabic, I mean going all the way back in the ancient times. If I'm an English language learner and I speak Spanish or Portuguese, and I'd recognize certain phonemes that go together from my language, right? That will give me that instant connection of, "Oh, I know what that is." And, so, that also enhances the student's ability to want to push forward and not stop and give up on it. So, I think that's a great point.

EC-H:

What I'd like to add to that, Greg, is that I like what you're talking about and really, "Oops, I have that sound." But we often take for granted that those connections just happen automatically, instantaneously. But for many students, we need to highlight that. And, so, the Spanish language has about 22 phonemes or so, the English language has about 44 phonemes. And, so, really English has more phonemes than most languages, but it's really teaching about what is the same and what is different, but can I use what you already know to build upon that? And you really get at the component of language, that phonological component that's so necessary. And as Tony mentioned for reading, for spelling, for writing, in that written language. You have to be able to have that.

GH:

Very good. Antonio, moving on to you what you were saying about the science of reading. Is the science of reading the answer for English learners in the same way that it is for all other students who are learning to read? Is that the key?

AF:

Well, I'll tell you, the key is the teacher. I mean, the teacher is the key here. And it's ensuring that we are equipped, that we understand the necessity, for example, for explicit instruction. And what does that mean? And what about sequential and what about modeling and practice? So, the bottom line here is that yes, the science of reading what we've known, what we've learned through the years, that's crucial. All that has to be understood and internalized by the teacher so that we in the classroom as we're working with students, then we can identify the needs that every student might have and the adjustments that we need to make at all levels. So, it is a science of reading and it is taking that knowledge and ensuring that we understand that knowledge base and internalize that knowledge base.

GH:

I think that's wonderful. It really is up to the teacher because if the teacher...I mean the teacher's kind of the basis for the class. These students are there to learn.

EC-H:

Oftentimes, one might question whether we actually have research on this kind of the skills and the comprehensive approach that we're really asking our teachers to understand and to be able to implement and use. And, so, I would like to mention that we do have national reports from the body of evidence that really began in the year 2000, really very much the first $30 million for the Biliteracy Research Network and that National Literacy Panel on Language-Minority Children and Youth that really is saying, "OK, well this is what we know for these students." We know that yes, you're going to work on their language skills and we're going to address those areas of the phonological awareness that they have to be able to understand how to read the print that is front of them and build that fluency while always addressing the vocabulary and that ultimate goal of comprehension.

But what are the adjustments that we have to make? We have to understand that native language and that native literacy knowledge can be used, and those cross-linguistic features are a definite resource and that we're going to need some extra work on really developing that second language vocabulary, bringing in all kinds of routines and strategies that we know that work for these diverse populations of students. And, so, oftentimes we think it's just going to be business as usual for implementing this body of evidence for all children. But we have to be very specific on this group of children. What is their home language? What is their background knowledge? What kind of cultural linguistic assets can I bring to that and what extra support will they need? And I have to be knowledgeable, as Tony said, it's not only having the knowledge, it's how do I implement and how do I become diagnostic and prescriptive in my teaching? Nothing beats a teacher.

Right? Nothing beats a well-informed, high-quality teacher. And every teacher in this country needs to know not only how to work with a student who is a monolingual English speaker, but needs to be prepared for working with students who are learning English as that additional language.

AF:

Right. And you know what, Elsa, I need to piggyback on that. So, in 2006, you mentioned the National Literacy Panel on Language-Minority Children and Youth. In 2006, there was also the executive summary, right? I mean, that's when it was published. And there's an executive summary that is about what, 12, 13 pages in length. So if you just go ahead and Google that National Literacy Panel on Language-Minority Children and Youth, and Google that executive summary, you can get the executive summary. And in there, it's exactly what Elsa just mentioned, that the research suggests that yes, there's the research on English learners, but the research also suggested adjustments to the approaches are needed to have maximum benefit with language minority students. So, that's key there. I really recommend that executive summary, Elsa, don't you think? I think that just gives us all the basic information on that panel.

EC-H:

And another consensus report that was followed up in the year 2017 was that promoting the educational success of children and youth learning English from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. What looked different from that? What was different from that previous report of the National Literacy Panel on Language-Minority Children and Youth? Well, yes, those phonemes' awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, reading comprehension. But they also talked about written language and writing. The key ideas from the other report are saying, "Be explicit. Work on that academic language during the content instruction." While you're working with these students, they're going to need some extra visual and verbal supports to make that content comprehensible and always capitalize on their home language, on their background, on their cultural assets for them to really succeed.

GH:

So, Elsa and Antonio, we're talking about diversity in classrooms. It seems like nowadays more than ever, teachers will have classrooms with both English speakers and English learners. How can they differentiate that instruction so that all students receive appropriate reading instruction? Elsa, I'll start with you.

EC-H:

In every classroom, we're going to have diversity. That's our country, a diverse population of students. But what we know is that we have to understand every student is an individual and every student really needs that high-quality differentiated language and literacy teaching. And for these students who are learning English as an additional language, we have to scaffold for the students' linguistic and their academic needs while also bringing in that meaningful...We want them to get to the ultimate goal, which is reading and comprehension. So, we've got to really practice in those language domains of listening, speaking, reading, and writing. And, so, that's how comprehensive we want to be. So, as I'm instructing, and Antonio knows this very well, he is a teacher of the year for a whole state. So, what I want to say is that you have all these students in front of you. If I could bring in some of those best teaching practices from the outside, I'm going to work maybe introducing something in the whole group.

Now, let me move into these make subgroups of students that are similar and that really need some extra support or a way to expand what we're learning, to reinforce what we're learning. But it's using those supports during instruction and getting into that small group. And we talk about the tiers of instruction, which you've probably heard about. Where the general classroom is that Tier 1 classroom, and this is the population we're speaking to right now. But even you as a classroom teacher, you have to put your children, your students into these small groups so that they can get extra practice, extra support, extra expansion of what they've learned. And that's being a good teacher. And then you're always bringing in those extra language domains of listening, speaking, reading, making all those connections and making sure that you're bringing in those principles of good teaching of how I'm going to pair these kids together.

I'm going to bring in those extra visual supports, extra opportunity to use the language. Because so often these students are going to need extra opportunity to use the language. So, I might be working in my whole group, I've got to move them into their smaller groups, and I've got to be that person that's monitoring and also scaffolding as I move along across those groups and be very wise about how I pair the students into those groups. Tony, what do you have to say about that?

AF:

No, you're right. And it goes back to...It's challenging. It's tough. I mean, it's really understanding all the assets that children are bringing to the table and then the additional small-group instruction, the added attention that's going to be placed and knowing where or knowing how to deliver that as well. But it is about having a really thorough understanding or it's really a very good understanding of what the needs are with that element again, of what is the language, what level of language acquisition might they be. And then how do I promote or structure or scaffold the language at that level to be able to move on to other areas. So, it's challenging.

EC-H:

So, one of the things I'd like to add to that could be some extra resources and help, we finished a project called Model Demonstration for Multi-Tiered System Supports for English Learners. And that's at mtss, the number four, els E-L-S.org. ( mtss4els.org) It's all free, sponsored by the U.S. Department of Education and Office of Special Education programs. But it really is meant for not only students who may be at risk for struggle, but for all students and especially these students learning English as an additional language. That we have certain features, high-quality, high-impact features that should be in your classroom, and examples of that could really help our teachers for this whole idea of implementation and differentiating that instruction that Greg just asked us about.

GH:

No, that's interesting. That's a really great point. And what was the webpage?

EC-H:

That was mtss4, and that would be the number four, Eels, E-L-S.org. mtss4els.org. And it's all for free.

GH:

Wonderful. That's even better. I'm sure a lot of our listeners will go there. I'm going to call you Dr. Antonio because I like that name. Let's go to you for this one. So, you're talking about screening and kind of placing students at a baseline to see where you need to start. Because we're talking about diverse students, not everyone's going to start at the same place. What are some of those special considerations for those screening and assessments among English learners? What do teachers need to know when they're assessing English learners and where to start?

AF:

So, I'll tell you earlier today I was talking to Elsa about this very same element. So I'm going to start this off by just mentioning the fact, here's the challenge for our teachers, that we need to get as much information about the student as possible beginning from a language standpoint. And these assessments, these screeners should be based on the language of instruction, alright? But there's other considerations that we need to be making. So, for example, how long have they been receiving this instruction in that language, whether it's native language or now English, for example. Alright. And what's the span of time that the child has been receiving this instruction and can we get additional information on the native language?

I mean, that is wonderful. If we can get additional information on their language capacity, their literacy capacity in their native and their heritage language, then that is going to definitely help us see what do we build on or what are some needs that we may need to take. So, Elsa, I'll turn that over to you and then follow up on that.

EC-H:

Thank you. Well, as you mentioned, it is going to be very important for us to understand the student and their context. And that also means the context not only in the school, but their context in their home environment. As mentioned, we want to know the number of years of that high-quality instruction, whether that was in the native language or in the second language. And also we have to be aware that it's not due to lack of instruction. But when we're using these screening tools, our families have so much information that they can give us. Were they ever worried about that child's language development because we know that can affect your literacy development? And we should also be aware that there's going to be typical patterns of errors that students, when you learn another language, an additional language, you're going to have these overgeneralization errors.

They're very typical and not atypical. So, it's going to be very important for the evaluator to understand this is typical for these individuals learning this second language and second language literacy, and especially typical to that native language. Or, is it atypical related to their language experiences and their background language? So, that's going to be important. So, we're always talking about quantifying work, but it's also important to get the quality of work, collecting the samples of students' work when they're listening, they're reading, their writing and their spelling, and being mindful of those error patterns. And keep in mind that our outcomes on these measurements will be dependent on all these different factors. That first language of instruction, whether English or the other language, the type of quality of language and literacy.

Sometimes we say, "Oh yeah, we were doing this, but were we really implementing with fidelity?" And when we are thinking about this, we want to think of being comprehensive in our approach, but also collaborative. Having the classroom teacher being very involved with this, any other experts in our school community. But also looking at our home community and that family and what to be looking for and also be mindful of, well, what tool am I using? And were students that are representative of the population for which I'm using this test, were they included? Yes or no?

AF:

And, so, what I wanted to add to that, Elsa, is that there's power in numbers. I mean, you don't have to go at this alone. I mean, I want to include the comments/the connection from home. I want to include other teachers who are also working with their student or students. I want to get a complete sample of work that will include writing samples, especially writing samples. And put that all within that framework of how long has this child been receiving this instruction. And also, as Elsa said, the quality. Didn't think about the quality, but the quality and the amount is so crucial in this identification and moving forward.

EC-H:

Sometimes, Greg, what happens is we're very reluctant and we do have to think about the screening tools that we're using or even any kind of assessment tools. But we're very reluctant to do the collaboration or maybe even digging deeper. Like right now, today we have someone that we are looking at and the student's having great difficulty in the English language, but we couldn't wait...The student speak Spanish and so we're right now digging into that Spanish language and seeing what is the same, what is different, but also looking at the kind of ways the questions are phrased and asked. And, so, noticing this is how the test to ask it, and I'm going to get my score for that. But let me look at that test for any bias in that test that might have this incredible way that it's asking for the test directions.

And oftentimes even in the test, it says you're allowed to use native language only for this subtest or that subtest. So, I think it's important to really look at that and then also be thinking of what is the language proficiency stage? Are they a beginner for this English language? Are they intermediate? Is it fair to use this language when I know they're just at the beginning stages? Is it not fair? So much goes into that for that really getting a good picture. And we're moving forward in these screening tools that are being developed to look at them bilingually and get what we call conceptual scoring in there to where no matter the language, they're demonstrating the concept that we're looking for.

GH:

And that's a lot when you think about it. I mean, it's a lot for one teacher or for each individual teacher to have to think about all these things. When I go into my classroom, some of the points that we were just talking about for screening my students for assessment. The facets of having to split up my students from whole group to small group, depending on their levels. And that's a lot for teachers to do. So, if you had one piece of advice, just one of the top of your top three. For teachers who are using the science of reading with English learners, what would it be? Elsa, I'll start with you.

EC-H:

Well, I think the message today is really that language supports literacy. So, you are a language teacher and you're a literacy teacher no matter what you teach. And literacy really is that bridge to equity and we want our students to be able to learn. So, we've got to have that language development and that literacy development so that they can learn across all the content areas. And so I recommend to you, there was another website called mylanguages.org. And if you have students from diverse populations and you want to know, what's the same, what's different? Here's some of the same speech sounds that exist in this language and that language. I don't have to know the language to be a great teacher for these students who are learning English as an additional language.

And so I think just being mindful of language supporting literacy and that literacy supports language. When we get into reading, look at all that we can do, and don't be afraid. Be willing to ask for help. Be willing to look for experts on your campus. Be willing to turn to the caregivers, the families, the communities. This is an essential piece of our work and every student in our country needs to be literate, including these students who have another home language.

GH:

Wonderful. Tony, what would be your top advice for those teachers? Would it be the same? Do you have anything that differs from Elsa's?

AF:

Greg, it's so unfair that you would just want one piece of advice, right?

GH:

You can't...And that's the thing. One piece of advice, just one.

AF:

One piece of advice. Well, ditto to everything that Elsa said. Absolutely. And then just to finalize that, to add to that is that we also must understand that every English learner brings cultural, social, emotional, experiential, and linguistic assets to the classroom. And these assets must be identified and honored. That's what's going to make a difference. And so Elsa, you said that reading is the bridge to equity. I mean, this opens up the door, opens up the world. I do believe that. I do believe that learning to read is the first step toward equity. And if we honor these assets, that just will build on and allow us to move forward. ¡Adelante! 

GH:

Well, this is great. Do you have any additional resources you'd like to share with us?

EC-H:

I am so excited that you asked that. At the University of Houston, we have the Center for the Success of English Learners. It's cselcenter.org. And what I want to say about that is, although today's topic was really talking about probably early literacy. This is really about newcomers that come to the United States and their adolescent students who are learning English as an additional language while dealing with the content. In addition to that, I just thought of another one called Reading 101 for English learners, and that's at colorincolorado.org. You might pronounce it in English as colorincolorado.org. So, those are some great resources. And Tony, would you agree with that?

AF:

Yes, absolutely. Especially with Colorín Colorado website. I have also recorded and videotaped some additional resources that will soon be on that website. Probably not until the end of summer, but it's always a good place to get all additional information and the resource on adolescents, Elsa, that is superb. We just need more support. Bottom line is all this information is great because it's vetted, it's research. It's not anybody's philosophy or view. This is what really works. So, Elsa, thank you very much for bringing those up.

EC-H:

You are most welcome.

GH:

Wonderful. Good points, both of you. Well, that is about all the time we have. Thank you so much for joining us. It was very interesting. I could listen to you guys all day. These points are great because it's things you don't think about. It really is. It really blows your mind. Well, Dr. Fierro, Dr. Cárdenas-Hagan, thank you so much.

AF:

Thank you.

GH:

It's been a pleasure speaking with you. It's been very inspiring to me. And I know I speak for educators everywhere when I say we thank you for your contributions to literacy learning just because it's so important. And a few of the websites, again, if you missed them, it is mtss4, the number four, E-L-S.org.

That's the Multi-Tiered System of Supports for English Learners. That's a free website. You can go on there and it models how you can set up your MTSS for ELS students. And also mylanguages.org was another one that was mentioned. That's a free site that you can go on there. They have language lessons pretty much in any language you can think of. Thank you so much. But how do our listeners learn more about you?

EC-H:

That would be at info@valleyspeech.org.

GH:

Perfect. And Antonio?

AF:

So I can be reached at afierro@95percentgroup.com.

GH:

And that is F-I-E-R-R-O.

AF:

@95, the number 95. And then percent group spelled out .com. Would love to hear from anyone.

GH:

Wonderful. Well thank you again. Thank you so much. It was a joy. This is Greg Hullett bringing the best thought leaders in education directly to you. Please join us next month for another great EDVIEW360 podcast.

Narrator:

This has been an EDVIEW360 podcast. For additional thought-provoking discussions, sign up for our blog, webinar, and podcast series at voyagersopris.com/edview360. If you enjoyed the show, we'd love a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts and to help other people like you find our show. Thank you.